High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and Bylaws Protest

It looks like May 31st is going to be anything but an ordinary Saturday in the park for Washington residents, as Hillary supporters from across the nation convene in the nations capital to speak out in support of counting every vote.

A group of High Profile Clinton Supporters are planning a day long rally in front of the hotel where the Rules and Bylaws committee will be considering the fate of the Michigan and Florida primaries.

It will draw together some of Clinton's most loyal backers and be emceed by Jehmu Greene, the former president of Rock the Vote who sat on the DNC committee that spent 2005 trying to reform the party's primary process.

Announced speakers so far include National Organization for Women President Kim Gandy and Florida Democratic congresswoman Corinne Brown. Organizers say that they expect individuals to come in from 26 different states for the rally, as well as some major celebrity speakers, and that they are receiving logistical assistance or other support from the pro-Clinton United Federation of Teachers and EMILY's List. The group Florida Demands Representation, organized by James Hannagan, will also be there.

Washington Protest Planned

HILLARY'S SWING STATE ADVANTAGE
PRINCETON, NJ -- In the 20 states where Hillary Clinton has claimed victory in the 2008 Democratic primary and caucus elections (winning the popular vote), she has led John McCain in Gallup Poll Daily trial heats for the general election over the past two weeks of Gallup Poll Daily tracking by 50% to 43%. In those same states, Barack Obama is about tied with McCain among national registered voters, 45% to 46%.

In contrast, in the 28 states and the District of Columbia where Obama has won a higher share of the popular vote against Clinton in the 2008 Democratic primaries and caucuses, there is essentially no difference in how Obama and Clinton each fare against McCain. Both Democrats are statistically tied with him for the fall election.

All of this speaks to Sen. Clinton's claim that her primary-state victories over Obama indicate her potential superiority in the general election.



PUERTO RICANS HEAD TO THE POLLS SUNDAY

POLLS SHOW CLINTON WITH A SOLID LEAD

There are about 2.5 million registered voters in Puerto Rico. Normally, 80 percent of them vote. While it may be less than that this weekend, still, close to one million people could show up to choose between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. That's about the same number that turned out in states like Missouri and New Jersey.

Over 1 Million To Cast Votes

FL/MICHIGAN: CLINTON CAMP NOT BACKING DOWN.

In most inclusive count, Clinton has the numbers

Lost in the excitement of Barack Obama's coronation this week was an inconvenient fact of Tuesday's results: Hillary Clinton netted approximately 150,000 votes and is now poised to finish the primary season as the popular-vote leader. In some quaint circles, presumably, these things still matter. Real Clear Politics keeps track of six versions of the popular-vote total. They are, in ascending order of inclusivity: (1) the popular vote of sanctioned contests; (2) the total of sanctioned contests, plus estimated votes from the Iowa, Nevada, Maine and Washington caucuses; (3) the popular vote plus Florida; (4) popular vote plus Florida and the caucuses; (5) the popular vote plus Florida and Michigan; (6) popular vote plus Florida, Michigan, and the caucus estimates. After Tuesday, Clinton now leads in two of these six counts.

If you believe that the most important precept in democratic politics is to "count every vote," then the sixth category is the most inclusive, and here Clinton leads Obama by 71,301 votes. Of course, this includes the Michigan result, where Sen. Obama had removed his name from the ballot. So while it may be the most inclusive, it may not be the most fair.

The third and fourth counts - the ones which include Florida - seem more fair. Here, Obama is clinging to a slight lead of 146,786 votes (257,008, with the caucus estimates). However, with Puerto Rico, Montana, and South Dakota remaining, he will almost certainly finish behind her in these counts, likely by a few hundred thousand votes.

But could Clinton take over the lead in all of the popular-vote tabulations? Quite possibly. In Puerto Rico's last major election, two million people voted. Let's assume that turnout for this historic vote - Puerto Rico has never had a presidential primary before - will be equal to or greater than that turnout.

If Clinton were to win Puerto Rico by 20 points she would pick up at least a 400,000-vote margin. This would allow her to swamp Obama in the popular-vote counts, which include Florida, making her the leader in four of the six permutations of the popular vote. At that point, Obama would be left clinging to the least-inclusive count, which he now leads by 441,558 votes (551,780, including caucuses).

To understand how razor-thin this majority is, consider that if the Puerto Rico turnout is slightly larger than we have imagined - or Clinton's margin is slightly greater - then Clinton would finish the primary process leading in every conceivable vote count. With two million voters, a 28 percent victory would put Clinton over the top even in the count, which excludes Florida and Michigan and includes estimates for Obama's caucus victories.

It is this looming prospect which explains the tremendous pressure Obama partisans and the media are putting on Clinton to drop out of the race. They want her gone now because they understand that she has an excellent chance of finishing as the undisputed people's choice.

Would it matter if Clinton were the undisputed (or even disputed) popular-vote winner? That's hard to say. The question is, matter to whom? The superdelegates will determine the nominee and there's no telling what will sway them. They have no objective criteria from which to make their decisions. But if they were to deny the popular-vote champ the nomination, there is a real question of whether Democratic voters would reconcile themselves to the decision. As it is, much of the talk about Democratic defections in November has been overstated.<> Partisan voters almost always come home after their candidate loses. The problem arises when a candidate's supporters believe that their guy (or gal) didn't lose. Expect the chorus calling for Clinton's withdrawal to grow louder over the next week, with people insisting that she has no "path to victory."

Clinton's path is both obvious and simple: Win the popular vote and force Barack Obama and his cheerleaders to explain why that doesn't matter.



Display:


Oh brother. (2.00 / 1)

When will this freakshow end?


by notme54 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:02:02 PM EST

Re: Oh brother. (1.66 / 3)

as soon as you cancel your account(s)?


by zerosumgame on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:08:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was talking about this primary season (2.00 / 1)

and it is nice to see that an obnoxious troll, such as yourself, can actually come up with something funny to say every once and a while.


by notme54 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:10:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was talking about this primary season (1.50 / 2)

well like repukes you are not so good at humor so you deliver a lot of straight lines, but being humor-impaired they mostly go over your head.


by zerosumgame on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:15:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was talking about this primary season (none / 0)

Who is this 'group' you are comparing to Republicans?


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:37:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was talking about this primary season (none / 0)

you for one, but beyond that, reading english is not that hard, I compared one humor impaired person determined to drive people away from the polls for the GE, not a group to repukes.


by zerosumgame on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:39:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was talking about this primary season (none / 0)

so is "blue2008" your sock-puppet or notme's?


by zerosumgame on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:57:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good one (none / 0)


by soyousay on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:57:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

says a lot about Clinton. nt (2.00 / 2)


McCain does Not support the troops
by hope monger on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:02:02 PM EST

Agreed. She wants votes counted. (1.00 / 0)

What nerve she has.


by catfish2 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:55:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Agreed. She wants votes counted. (2.00 / 1)

and how DARE anyone protest anything! OMG call out the water-cannons and tear-gas them NOW NOW NOW!


by zerosumgame on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:54:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The title pretty much says it all. (2.00 / 11)

One camp wins by the rules, the other protests said rules.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:02:51 PM EST

Re: The title pretty much says it all. (2.00 / 1)

seeing as yu refuse to know or follow the rules here, chance are very good going from your posts that you only "know" a few selected rules and think those are the only ones to apply. But nice to see you hinting you will vote MCSame if your guy does not get the nod.


by zerosumgame on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:11:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The title pretty much says it all. (none / 0)

Speaking of rules:

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/5/28/ 164638/636


by Dave B on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:42:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How embrrassing (2.00 / 6)

After Hillary signed off on stripping those delegates and was quoted before the contest saying it didn't matter if she left her name on the ballot because, "everyone knows those delegates won't be seated."  

After her campaign didn't have a plan to compete past Feb 5.

Now 'every vote counts' is somehow a principle here and not just a bs way to try to wrest the nomination?  

I'm not clear on how people are keeping a straight face when they repeat her talking points.  


by Sun Dog on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:02:54 PM EST

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (2.00 / 1)

But what does the Obamalogist have to say?


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:03:57 PM EST

Why do I keep forgetting this (2.00 / 1)

is the guy who brought that up?

Is it because it is so funny that each time I see it a new it busts my gut?


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:09:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why do I keep forgetting this (none / 0)

Chicago's Number One media analyst, Obama expert and Internet columnist Andy Martin will hold a 4:00 P.M. New York City news conference today,

--'Breaking' NYC News Conference To Expose Obama/Rezko Connection, by steve468
by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:26:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why do trolls bring up old news! (none / 0)

Another one with a one track mind. I believe we refer to all things, as occurring under the "Freedom of the Press" rule, or have you forgotten that as well.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:43:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (1.00 / 3)

Obama wants everything handed to him on a plate, via the corporate media networks. Obama took his name off the ballot in Michigan for political purposes that suited his campaign, now he wants to disenfranchise those voters. He even came out today and said that the protest wasn't justified and shouldn't be held. I guess not, considering he is about to lose the national popular vote to Hillary, and his delegate lead would shrink quite a bit as well. The DNC set up this circus and they will have to let the show go on, until the tent folds and the circus moves on, if it ever does.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:12:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (2.00 / 3)

Well what about when she said "everybody knows these votes will not count for anything"?


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:15:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (1.33 / 3)

Yeh. So! Politicians say alot of stupid things. Look what Obama said today about the Nazis prison camps. Come on!


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (2.00 / 3)

What did he say today about Nazi prison camps? Oh, you must be recycling Monday's news on Wednesday.

Oh, Steve...if you're weren't so adorably inept, we might actually take umbrage at the vomitous garbage you post.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:28:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (2.00 / 1)

Oh thanks! You have made my day. Old news. Gee Google must not think so, it plastered all over there search engine. BTW, I have a company to run, I don't sit here all day arguing about frivolities.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:46:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (2.00 / 1)

and by "company" you mean "blog that no one reads"


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:03:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ZING!!! (none / 0)


Mooseburgers? Careful Sarah. Moose bite back!
by spacemanspiff on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:08:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ZING!!! (none / 0)

Oh, really thats funny, I thought he meant like a real job, like the real job I avoid :P


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:10:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (none / 0)

12,000 readers every month at last count. And that is just from one of many sites I own. Anyway, why am I telling you that, since nobody reads my content.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:34:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama is a silly guy :D (none / 0)

...and about the "57 states and about seeing dead people in the audience.


by soyousay on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:00:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama is a silly guy :D (none / 0)

57-He must be counting those caucus states. Just like his supporters that said millions of voters went to the polls in these small caucus states. How does a few thousand constitute millions. And if that were true, then why isn't he counting them, since he   is so concerned about the popular vote all of a sudden. Gee I wonder why?


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:37:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (none / 0)

No one, but no one, thought the votes would count back in November 2007. This whole primary system was rigged to create a domino effect and an early victor -- most thought everything would be wrapped up by Super Tuesday. In most Dem primaries, most states don't have a say in the final outcome. But it turned out that everyone was wrong. Now, since this has ended up being the closest contest in Democratic party history, everyone's vote should count -- otherwise, the Democratic party will join the GOP as being seen as a party of disenfranchisement.


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:32:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (2.00 / 4)

Would she be as adamant if these two states were Mississippi and Virginia where she got trounced?  I don't think so...All this is, is a strategy to keep her in the race, nothing more, nothing less...


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:42:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (none / 0)

Well if that is indeed the case, then it is working very well for her and the campaign. The Clinton's are very shrewd politicians, they didn't get were they are at, by being nice to everyone. We call it politics, what do you call it?


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:48:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (none / 0)

Personally, I don't think either Hillary or Obama should be allowed to cherry-pick, which is exactly what Obama did when he took his name off the Michigan ballot.

After all, 5 states--IA, NH, SC, FL, and MI -- all violated the DNC rules. If you are going to argue the rules, these other states probably should be stripped of their delegates as well. However, as pointed out on TalkLeft, Florida is a special case and probably should have its delegates reinstated:

In addition, the Florida delegation must be reinstated in full as it qualifies for the safe harbor exception provided in Rule 21 of the DNC Delegate Selection Rules provides:

21. STATE LEGISLATIVE CHANGES

   A. Subject to Rule 18.C. of these Rules, wherever any part of any section contained in these rules conflicts with existing state laws, the state party shall take provable positive steps to achieve legislative changes to bring the state law into compliance with the provisions of these rules.

   B. Provable positive steps shall be taken in a timely fashion and shall include: the drafting of corrective legislation; public endorsement by the state party of such legislation; efforts to educate the public on the need for such legislation; active support for the legislation by the state party lobbying state legislators, other public officials, Party officials and Party members; and encouraging consideration of the legislation by the appropriate legislative committees and bodies.

   C. A state party may be required by a vote of the DNC Executive Committee upon a recommendation of the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee to adopt and implement an alternative Party-run delegate selection system which does not conflict with these rules, regardless of any provable positive steps the state may have taken.

The Florida Democratic Party complied with sections A and B of Rule 21. The DNC did NOT invoke Rule 21C and thus, Florida is entitled to the safe harbor provided by Rule 21. Its entire delegation should be seated.

However, should the DNC not accept the safe harbor argument, then Rule 20c.1.b comes into play. Rule 20c.1.b provides:

A presidential candidate who campaigns in a state where the state party is in violation of the timing provisions of these rules, or where a primary or caucus is set by a state's government on a date that violates the timing provisions of these rules, may not receive pledged delegates or delegate votes from that state.
. . . "Campaigning" for purposes of this section includes, but is not limited to, purchasing print, internet, or electronic advertising that reaches a significant percentage of the voters in the aforementioned state; hiring campaign workers; opening an office; making public appearances; . . . The Rules and Bylaws Committee will determine whether candidate activities are covered by this section.

It appears that Senator Barack Obama inadvertently violated this rule by running cable advertising that "reache[d] a significant amount of the voters" and by making a "public appearance" before the primary date. Accordingly, he must lose all of his delegates from Florida, should the DNC rule that Florida does not fall within the safe harbor.

To recapitulate, a strict interpretation of the DNC Rules that follows the reasoning of the DNC Memo circulated today would require the following results:

A. The stripping of 50% of the delegates of Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Michigan.

B. The full seating of the Florida delegation.

C. Should the DNC RBC reject the safe harbor provision for Florida, then Florida would have 50% of its delegations stripped, but Barack Obama would be entitled to no delegates from Florida due to his violation of Rule 20c.1.b.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/5/28/ 164638/636


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:21:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (2.00 / 1)

Well, frankly I think Armando's analysis is flawed.  For one, he doesn't offer any support for his naked assertion that whatever the Florida party did was sufficient to qualify for the safe harbor provision.  Secondly, the very text you and he cited of Rule 20c.1.b. states that its penalties are discretionary and left to the judgment of the R&B Committee, so the language does not compel any result, contrary to what Armando would have people believe.

As with many things Armando writes, this is nothing more than argument dressed up as fact.


by rfahey22 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:30:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (none / 0)

As with many things Armando writes, this is nothing more than argument dressed up as fact.

I think that the same could be said for everything one reads on the blogs.


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:36:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (1.00 / 1)

So basically they should count because Hillary's rigging of the process in advance wasn't sufficient to give her the nomination -- she must now actually also change the rules mid-game to have the slightest of chances.

You people should all just be ashamed of yourself. I no longer have the slightest respect for anyone who supports Clinton's lies and vote-rigging and her abuse of every principle of law or democracy.

Like Bush she'd have been yet another "signing statements" president and she'd have helped complete the destruction of America's constitution.

You know what? Even if Obama fails in November, history will praise him one day if only for the fact that he stopped Hillary. She is indeed a monster who respects no rule and no principle -- it's everything about the win, the win, the win, and let everything else be screwed.


by Aris Katsaris on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:56:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (2.00 / 1)

How ironic. That sounds like every politician in Washington.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 09:23:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (none / 0)

I never said that Hillary rigged the process -- if anyone deserves the blame for this mishegoss it's Howard Dean. It turns out that Carville was right when he accused him almost a year ago of "Rumsfeldian incompetence."

Like Bush she'd have been yet another "signing statements" president and she'd have helped complete the destruction of America's constitution.

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

You know what? Even if Obama fails in November, history will praise him one day if only for the fact that he stopped Hillary.

You're completely wrong about how history will judge this election, but I'm glad you are beginning to acknowledge what is likely to happen in November.


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Wed May 28, 2008 at 09:53:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (none / 0)

"I never said that Hillary rigged the process"

It was rigged to create this domino effect as you said -- intentionally so that big names would have a bigger chance. It was intentionally created to give Hillary an even bigger chance than normally, but it was just not sufficient for her.

"You're completely wrong about how history will judge this election, but I'm glad you are beginning to acknowledge what is likely to happen in November."

I certainly understand how Obama may not be quite capable of attracting Hillary Clinton's four favoured demographics of liars, crooks, rule-breakers and sore losers.

Bereaved of their beloved Clintons these demographics will perhaps indeed gravitate to their more natural home in the Republican party.

All the more reason to fight as hell to ensure the nomination isn't stolen by Clinton.


by Aris Katsaris on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:53:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (none / 0)

People thought the process would be over by Super Tuesday -- it was never a given that Hillary would emerge victorious.


Fortune strums a mournful tune for those whose campaigns peak too soon. --Bored of the Rings
by Inky on Thu May 29, 2008 at 02:22:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (2.00 / 2)

He'll probably be there, leading the crowd in doing the wave.


by rfahey22 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:20:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If MI and FL were caucuses would Hillary be (2.00 / 6)

"fighting" so hard to ensure they are not "disenfranchised."

Her pop. vote arguments are disingenuous because they all rely on disenfranchising millions of caucus voters.


McCain does Not support the troops
by hope monger on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:04:23 PM EST

million (singular) (none / 0)

Only 1.1 million people voted in caucuses this year.  Just sayin'.


Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
by anna belle on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:19:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: million (singular) (none / 0)

How do you know that? Where does that number come from?


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:10:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ok million but (none / 0)

my argument still stands


McCain does Not support the troops
by hope monger on Fri May 30, 2008 at 01:14:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

RIP Mitch (2.00 / 2)

I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:05:36 PM EST

Re: High s Protest (1.60 / 5)

Gallup says HIllary will be the stronger candidate.

Hillary should keep fighting and win no matter how.


by HillsMyGirl on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:06:27 PM EST

laughs at the parody troll (2.00 / 5)


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:07:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: laughs at the parody troll (1.60 / 5)

What?

I don't understand.

YOur kind of negative attacks are hurting your candidate Obama.  Stop being bitter and have respect for Hillary and her voters.


by HillsMyGirl on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:10:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

laughs at the parody troll (nt) (2.00 / 4)


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:12:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High s Protest (none / 0)

thats really funny.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:11:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High s Protest (2.00 / 1)

ATTN: hillmy girl is a troll from the racist hate site no quarter:

Comment by hillarysmygirl | 2008-05-27 16:33:31


by venician on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:24:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is what she is reduced to (2.00 / 1)

She lost all her money.  She lost the majority of of pledged delgegates.  She lost her lead in pledged delegates.

It's pitiful.

All that is left is for Laura Dern to play her in the HBO movie in a few years...


by rf7777 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:08:59 PM EST

Re: This is what she is reduced to (2.00 / 4)

lets no confuse the actions of supporters and the candidate


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:13:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what she is reduced to (none / 0)

That is a fair point.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:21:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what she is reduced to (1.33 / 3)

Please tell me again, what planet you are from? Hillary is about to win the national popular vote. Gallup has consistently polled her in favor of winning the general election against McCain, where she has also polled better than YOUR invincible Barack Obama, and is about to trounce Obama in PR, that is far from pitiful. You all have a one track mind with your pledged delegate math. What a joke!


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:17:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what she is reduced to (2.00 / 5)

Your candidate agreed this was a delegate race when she decided to run for president.

Why do you disrespect your candidate?


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:18:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what she is reduced to (none / 0)

Speaking of planets, when is sky news media going to release all of those UFO photos?


by venician on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:25:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what she is reduced to (none / 0)

Why? Are you planning a trip on some comet. Sounds like your already spaced out!


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 09:25:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary Clinton is loads (2.00 / 2)

better than Kitty Harris.

That is close to over the line, just because she has some crazies supporting her like Universal doesn't mean she wants to be associated with them.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:19:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what she is reduced to (2.00 / 1)

uh...comparing Clinton to Katherine Harris? Gimme a break.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:31:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what she is reduced to (2.00 / 1)

I agree,  Katherin Harris is comparable to Geraldine Ferraro.

HRC, thats a low blow, prob off your mark.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:38:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is what she is reduced to (none / 0)

Not saying she is similar to Harris.  But the recent performance has me thinking about what it would look like.  

Laura Dern hamming it up playing the driven but delusional Hillary, ever victimized by the right wing conspiracy, the left wing conspiracy, the media, the blacks, the misogynists, the SuperDelegates and of of course Judas.


by rf7777 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:38:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (2.00 / 5)

If she wants to mark herself look silly by protesting, that's fine.  The Obama campaign is taking the classy way on the other hand by encouraging no protests.


by skywaker9 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:09:05 PM EST

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (1.20 / 5)

And we all know why too. He is about to lose the national popular vote, not a pretty scenario for your candidate. HA!


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:18:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (2.00 / 3)

Really mature reponse.  Anyway, you forget three things:

1. FL and especially MI were not equal contests.  We all know why but, among other things, Obama might well have won MI (the exit polls show it would have been close) had the election been real and FL would likely have been much closer.

  1. Even counting Florida, Obama leads by 163,655 votes without caucus states.  Only if MI and FL are included in full and Obama is given zero from MI does he not lead.
  2. It is about delegates, not the "popular vote."  Period.  HRC knew the rules and she now cannot change them since she's losing.


by skywaker9 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:30:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (2.00 / 3)

actually, it's easier than that. The bogus "popular vote lead" that terminally silly people like steve keep touting requires you to give Obama zero votes in Michigan--not even the uncommitted votes. Now that's fairness!


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:43:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (none / 0)

Reminder Alert! He took himself off the ballot in Michigan. No one told him he had to do that, that was his silly choice. Now he wants to whine and complain, ok let him. When they wanted to redo the primary, he was against that to. Well you can't have you cake and eat it too. Yeah it is fairness!


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:24:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (2.00 / 1)

So is Edwards part of this conspiracy too?

He took his name of the ballot as well.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:25:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (none / 0)

 Edwards. Who is Edwards? Most people are asking that question today. Oh, the candidate that couldn't even win his own state.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 09:28:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (none / 0)

Rules are meant to be changed, and it looks like they are about to be. So complain about that too!

AFter Sunday, Hillary will be ahead in PV, and that is a fact!


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:51:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (2.00 / 1)

Actually, that's an "assertion."  

Here's a website that may help you figure these things out:

www.dictionary.com


by Reaper0Bot0 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:23:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (none / 0)

Rules are meant to be changed, and it looks like they are about to be. So complain about that too!

BEST EVIDENCE THAT THIS PRIMARY IS OVER!!


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 07:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (1.20 / 5)

They are not protesting because they know they are on the wrong side of the issue. What, his supporters are gonna get up and protest for votes not to count?  It's a bad argument to make and it plays into Clinton's hands.  It has nothing to do with class, it has to do with the narrative of trying to keep peoples votes from counting.


by nyarch on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:27:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (2.00 / 2)

Seriously, do you pay attention to reality?  She had the advantage and she f-ing blew it.  She completely miscalculated her campaign by blowing off caucus states among other things.  If she can't manage a campaign, how can she be President?


by skywaker9 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:32:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (none / 0)

Such Testiness. Looks like she is doing just fine, about to win the popular vote, won all the swing states, ahead in many polls, ready to win big in Puerto Rico. That doesn't sound like a loser to me.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:54:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (2.00 / 1)

She's 200 delegates behind. If you can't see that then you're deaf, dumb and blind -- no insult intended for the actually deaf, dumb or blind.


by Aris Katsaris on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:58:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (1.00 / 1)

200 delegates. OMG, the end of the world. And how many will she be behind after Sunday? Let's see your Obama math at work.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 09:31:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (none / 0)

"Obama Math"?

You've finally snapped have you? You think that mathematics is a case of mere perception and spin?

There's no Obama math, there's no Clinton math, there's just math, you ignorant jerk.

Seat Michigan and Florida 3 times each, and it'd still not be enough to steal the nomination. Have 5 Puerto Ricos give Clinton victories of 20% and it'd still not be enough to overcome Obama's lead.

This isn't "Obama math", this is just math.


by Aris Katsaris on Thu May 29, 2008 at 03:02:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (none / 0)

200 delegates is the smallest margin in history. And the pledged delegate count, the only one that actually counts for anything at this point, is much closer.  The electorate is divided, there is no clear winner.  Delegates, even if she was winning them are not an accurate reflection of the way people voted on whole.  It's a bad system no matter who wins.


by nyarch on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:16:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (none / 0)

My comment had nothing at all to do with the campaign to date or her running of it.  He is simply on the wrong side of the issue with MI and FL.  To have his supporters there would be to have his supporters fighting for votes NOT TO COUNT.  That is a no win position and is ammo for her to keep fighting.


by nyarch on Thu May 29, 2008 at 11:12:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary did no such thing (1.00 / 3)

Hillary never signed off on such a deal.

These are just more smears from the Obama campaign.

I've never seen a candidate attacked like this before.  It's ridiculous.


by HillsMyGirl on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:11:11 PM EST

laughs at the parody troll (nt) (2.00 / 4)


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:13:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: laughs at the parody troll (nt) (none / 0)

Do you think McCain's site issues them with a sig, or they make them up all by themselves?


by interestedbystander on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:35:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (none / 0)

Hopefully this dude will make a guest appearance:


by Pat Flatley on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:11:24 PM EST

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan (2.00 / 2)


Gosh darn, those pesky rules Hillary's supporters voted for last summer.

by neonplaque on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:12:20 PM EST

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (none / 0)

Yawn....who cares?


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:14:53 PM EST

Corinne Brown ain't representing her (2.00 / 1)

constituents.

They went to Obama overwhelmingly.


by bobdoleisevil on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:15:23 PM EST

Re: Corinne Brown ain't representing her (none / 0)

Neither is Ted Kennedy OR John Kerry.

Lets not play this game.


by alyssa chaos on Wed May 28, 2008 at 08:49:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary vs. the Democratic Party (2.00 / 6)

The Clinton campaign is now the campaign against the Democratic party.

Even though Bill and Hillary had as much control over the design of the nomination process as anyone, Hillary has chosen to disparage the process.

Caucuses are bad, using the delegate count is bad, the voters are wrong, the rules shouldn't be enforced, party officials should be coerced, and whoever is ahead in the polls should get the nomination.

Hillary would rather say "I was cheated," than "I was beaten."

It will be good for the party when Hillary is gone.


We shall overcome. Yes we can.
by Sam Wise Gingy on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:18:48 PM EST

Re: Hillary vs. the Democratic Party (1.00 / 2)

Shed some more tears. Woe es me. Hillary is so terrible, her supporters are so terrible, her campaign is so terrible.....CRY ME A RIVER!!


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:21:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary vs. the Democratic Party (2.00 / 2)

Is this your defense of the Clinton campaign?

You can't do any better that disparage me?


We shall overcome. Yes we can.
by Sam Wise Gingy on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:54:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (none / 0)

If this kind of thing affects the decision in any way then we have a really sorry excuse for a country. They absolutely can't take any of that into consideration.


by Becky G on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:22:10 PM EST

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (none / 0)

We said that in 2000 also, and what did we do, NOTHING! Just complained. Who ever said that politics was fair?


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:28:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (2.00 / 1)

She lost, man.

Crawl out of the bunker. Join your party around your party's nominee.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:30:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (none / 0)

What nominee? We don't have one last time I looked.


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 09:32:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules (none / 0)

Screw Saturday housechores.

I'm parking my ass on the couch to watch the coverage.  Better than bread and circuses.


You haven't seen impatient until you've seen a monkey waiting for a donut.
by bjones on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:23:59 PM EST

Rules (none / 0)

BTD, over at Talkleft.com, has quite a post about the rules today, inspired as he was by the new memo out from DNC lawyers. According to his numbers, if the DNC really played by all the rules tomorrow, Hillary would net 80 delegates against Barack tomorrow. But you won't hear any complaining from Obama supporters about all the rules around here. Just selective enforcement.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/5/28/ 164638/636


Rules are not necessarily sacred, principles are. - Franklin Delano Roosevelt
by anna belle on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:26:51 PM EST

Re: Rules (none / 0)

It is not tomorrow. Ever heard the old saying about trusting a lawyer?


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:32:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rules (none / 0)

Good point.  Armando "BTD" is a lawyer.


by rfahey22 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:34:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rules (none / 0)

Bill, Hillary, and Barack are all lawyers themselves.

I guess we're screwed.


by neonplaque on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:35:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rules (none / 0)

I'll take the opinion of the DNC's lawyers over Armando's self-interested opinion any day, thanks (and I know Armando pretends to be neutral in all of this, or something).  I noticed that his diary is awfully short on citations to evidence for his claims about what the states at issue did or didn't do.


by rfahey22 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:33:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (2.00 / 3)

I'm going to protest outside of the NFL headquarters, in the hopes that they'll retroactively change the rules, such that my Colts actually beat the Chargers in the playoffs last year.

Here's hopin'!


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:34:36 PM EST

Re: High Profile Clinton Backers Plan Rules and By (none / 0)

Now we know why the Media plans to cover it all day


by Hillarywillwin on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:35:46 PM EST

What does Hillary say? (2.00 / 1)

Will Hillary endorse this protest?

Will she condemn it?

Or say nothing.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:39:12 PM EST

Re: What does Hillary say? (none / 0)

Anybody know this?

There is no HRC hotline I can call,  I really don't know.

Obama has condemned his people from even considering it.


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:06:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Hillary say? (none / 0)

Well I certainly hope Hillary doesn't condemn protesting. I hope Obama would condemn it either. The only one I know that would condemn the right of people to protest is the Bush administration.


by Justwords on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:07:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Hillary say? (none / 0)

So after 7 years of pandering to bush these Democrats have found nothing else worthy of protesting their own political party?

Wow, thats idealistic for you.

Obama didn't condemn anything, he just asked supporters not to engage, and I hope they dont.

VH1 needs some good stock footage for their  "Remember 2008, the silly year"


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:09:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

All these protests backfire on her. Doesn't (none / 0)

anyone notice that?


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:46:02 PM EST

Yippee Yahoo - that's for you, Steve (none / 0)

For something to backfire, I believe it first has to build up enough momentum to "fire".

This will probably be the same, 23 or so sad Sharpies n' Tagboard crew that protested outside some media outlets a while back.

The whole thing smells like astroturf to me.

I'm not much of a wonk, but I certainly didn't recognize the names of those leading the "protest".


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:54:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yippee Yahoo - that's for you, Steve (none / 0)

Hah well emails from a select few pissed of the supers so I'm not sure how many have to be there to have an effect. But you're right, if 23 people show up I guess it would be more of a laugh than anything else.

They'll probably be paid protesters. Though with the Clinton camp in so much debt it'll have to be a rich donor footing the bill.


John McCain on social security.
by heresjohnny on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:56:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yippee Yahoo - that's for you, Steve (1.00 / 1)

UH HUH! Yeh Ok! Your right, I'm wrong! It won't amount to anything! The committee will disenfranchise the voters, just like Obama wants. After all, he has the media in his pocket, so why not the committee too. And as far as all those supporters, screw them they are just a bunch of delusional voters. Yes, whatever Obama wants, Obama gets. NO this one is for YOU!


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:01:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yippee Yahoo x2 (none / 0)

I agree with you on one point only.

Whatever Obama wants, Obama gets.

Obama wants the presidency, and he is going to get it.

After Clinton concedes, you're welcome to join us and help.


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:10:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yippee Yahoo you lose (none / 0)

FYI; the GE isn't the same as the primary. Obama's "new map" <---(that cracks me up) won't work and he'll be a loser come Nov.


by soyousay on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:26:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yippee Yahoo x2 (none / 0)

Don't you get it yet! There isn't going to be any concession. Hillary wants it more than he does!


Steven Shaman Publisher Skywatch-Media News
by steve468 on Wed May 28, 2008 at 06:27:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They both agreed not to campaign,.. (2.00 / 2)

 never that the delegates wouldn't count.  http://tominpaine.blogspot.com/2008/05/f lorida-and-michigan-and-obamas-corrupt.h tml


by brooklyndem on Wed May 28, 2008 at 05:51:00 PM EST